How about this for Cardinals Folly?

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Postby Cibator » Wed 25 Nov, 2009 10:15:22

K R Cope wrote: ..... the description of Grove Place in the Roger Brook stories. (I'd have to refresh my memory on the latter, it's a very long time since I read whichever book it's in....and was it called Grove House in the book?)


The most detailed description of Grove Place comes in the first volume, The Launching of Roger Brook. But having just done a quick check, I'm rather astonished to have to report that it isn't called anything at all! When referred to, it's invariably as "the house" or "Roger's home". Even when Fouche forces RB to reveal his true identity, he gives his address as simply "Lymington", with no mention of where in that town his father's home is.
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Postby Nick » Wed 25 Nov, 2009 19:21:47

Which is exactly why we are all so interested in Cardinals Folly.

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Postby Alan » Wed 2 Dec, 2009 12:13:00

[quote="Nick"]I think the reason why Cardinals Folly is so compelling is because DW's description is so precise. No other venue is described in as much detail, including DeRichleaus flat......

On the other hand, at least we have a street for the Duke's gaff. If ever I get back to London, I'm half tempted to wander along Curzon street and see if I can pick it out.

And for Gregory Sallust's place, we have an actual address... Has anyone from here ever actually looked it up?

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Postby Stevie P » Wed 2 Dec, 2009 15:45:08

Tomorrow is the day!!!!!!!

I'm off to visit 'The Peacock' at Tenbury Wells and the nearby 'Hopton Court' and 'Crown'. Ann (My other half)and myself are off in search of the Grail.

After our last trip to Kidderminster, Ann is a little tentative about viewing the second 'Peacock'. My son declined the offer - complaining that he had just got over the shock of the last Peacock!!
Charles - You may well have more 'ammo' to use following this visit. Fingers crossed - here goes.

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Postby Stevie P » Thu 3 Dec, 2009 20:23:07

This has been a terrific day.
Ann and myself set off this morning searching for the grail. Did we find it? Very possibly!!

We were heading for The Crown at Hopton, Hopton Court and The Peacock at Boraston.
However as we drove through Kidderminster, we stopped to look in on St. Ambrose's catholic church were the Canon Wheatley was the parish priest between 1885 and 1908. I managed to see a picture of him and took a photo which hopefully we can add to the site a little later.
Our next stop was The Crown. To be honest after my previous visit to The Peacock in Kidderminster, I was not overly optimistic that I was going to find 'The Pride of Peacocks' here. However we went into this lovely old pub with , an open fire, an excellent menu and rooms for hire. DW would have loved it. The garden was lawned and dipped down to a small flowing stream which a person could just about jump across. I asked the barman if Hopton court was on the other side of the stream. He said it was and would take approx 10 minutes to walk it through the wooded land. I asked the landlord to read the extract from TDRO to see if he thought it corresponded to this pub. He said 'perfectly'.
We then headed to Hopton Court (by road) and drove up to a lovely old house in the middle of spacious grounds. I was really pleased at what I saw as it was exactly what I hoped it would be like. For some reason I was under the impression that this was a hotel or something similar (i.e. open to the public). A notice on the outer gate said - No admittance without an appointment. I didn't quite know what to do then but as I'd driven 60 miles to get there I thought I'd be cheeky and risk it . I drove up to the house but unfortunately the owners were not there. I was just about to leave when a car came up the drive. It was a man and a lady whom I thought might be about to turf me off their land!!
However the man listened politely as I asked him to read the description of 'Cardinals Folly'. He said that some of it is accurate i.e the pond and the sun dial, the servants quarters but some of it seems to have some artistic licence. I then asked if there was another house nearby that would match the description. He said none at all. It must be this one. I then asked about the Octagonal library. He said that he could (to a point) understand how it might be described like that and then offered to show it to me. He then showed me in and agreed to let me take photographs which I did and these will also (hopefully) be available soon. It also turned out that he had a copy of one the Wheatley dossiers in the library.
He even checked the visitors book over the period 1934/5 to see if DW may have been there but there was nothing there.
I would sincerely like to offer my thanks to him, whose name I now have, but won't publish until I get his approval. He was exceptionally helpful and a delight to talk with even if his house isn't 'Cardinals Folly' which I believe it probably is. The question now is 'Why here'?
I have forwarded him details of our web site and said I would send the link for this item when the photo's are added. I have sent him links to the TDRO book reviews and the Cardinals Folly & Pride of Peacocks saga.

We then moved on to The Peacock inn at Boraston which also turned out to be an old beamed pub but I don't think this place is part of the equasion. The landlady here said that she doesn't know of any other 'Peacock' pubs in the distict other than Boraston and Kidderminster. I think it must be Hopton.

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Postby Charles » Thu 3 Dec, 2009 20:34:50

Dear Steve,

What a fascinating piece !

I'll get the photos added as soon as I am able.

Thanks to you - and to the owner - for a truly fascinating 'next episode' in the saga ...

Best as always !
Charles

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Postby Nick » Thu 3 Dec, 2009 23:43:28

Well done! I am feeling rather pleased with myself, but more pleased with you Steve!

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Postby Cibator » Fri 4 Dec, 2009 09:28:38

Alan wrote: And for Gregory Sallust's place, we have an actual address... Has anyone from here ever actually looked it up?


I've a vague memory of having tried this in the late 60s or early 70s, only to find that the real Gloucester Road isn't in fact long enough for the numbers to go up to 272.
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Postby Stevie P » Fri 4 Dec, 2009 10:42:10

Well done Nick. These locations were your suggestions and it looks like we've come up trumps.

I meant to add that driving out of Hopton towards Tenbury Wells gives superb views from the top of Clee Hills. I'd never been there before but it was really breathtaking.

I will try to contact the Ludlow licencing dept to see who the Licensee of the Crown was in the 1930's (and was it ever called The pride of Peacocks.)

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Postby Stevie P » Fri 4 Dec, 2009 16:51:03

I've attached a map reference for The Crown & Hopton Court. In the bottom left hand corner of the map is the wording 'Hopton Wafers' (This is the location of the Crown Public house car park). If you take a North Easterly line from here and cross the bank of trees on the right you will come to a big house (Hopton Court.) with a rectangular tennis court in front of it.

http://www.multimap.com/maps/?zoom=16&c ... 20DY14%200

Steve

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Postby Charles » Tue 12 Jan, 2010 13:55:03

Further to Steve's posting of 3rd December, if you click on the link below it will take you to the photographs he took.

http://www.denniswheatley.info/userimages1.htm

Apologies Steve they took rather longer than I had hoped to load onto the site - we had a technical problem !

All best - and thanks again for an incredibly exciting latest chapter in the saga ...
Charles

K R Cope

Postby K R Cope » Thu 14 Jan, 2010 13:41:05

Very interesting photos, thank you.

The Crown/Pride of Peacocks? is certainly very much as the mental image I built up in reading the book descriptions.

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Postby Stevie P » Sun 28 Mar, 2010 15:09:33

I took my second trip to Hopton last Friday 26th March. I had made an appointment to meet the owner of The Woodhouse (approx a quarter of a mile away from Hopton Court) which had been recommended to me by the owner of Hopton Court.

I have attached some photographs of the house which is in the process of major extensions and repairs to Charles which maybe added to the site.

However, to cut a long story short I think that this is a bit of a red herring as the descriptions in TDRO and Strange Conflict really don’t connect with this place. The main reason for thinking that it may be the place was the studded door (which is not oak!!) and the cellar which is nowhere near big enough.

The house is not being lived in at present and there is no suggestion of an octagonal room. The only connection is a big Cedar tree at the front of the house but this is not unusual as cedar tree’s were frequently used to mark boundaries (so I’m told).

I think that Hopton Court and the Crown pub are more likely to be part of the Cardinals Folly story but certainly not all of it.

My next stop will be Wytham Abbey in Oxfordshire. If nothing else I am fortunate enough to meet some very nice people and properties which I will never be able to afford!!

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Postby Charles » Sun 28 Mar, 2010 21:07:45

Dear Steve ,

Many thanks for the latest episode in "The Quest" - as absorbing a read as the others, even if you think it's probably not the right building.

My web chaps are just putting the finishing touches to the third Room of the Museum, which should hopefully go live on the site tomorrow, after which they head off for their well deserved Easter break. As soon as they're back, I'll get them to add the photos.

Reading your notes, it feels as if we're behind your shoulder at every stage, and we can share all the excitement - even if we can't go into all the dodgy pubs with you !

Good luck in Oxfordshire - will your family smell a rat if you say that for a treat you're thinking of taking them on a trip to see the Spring flowers at Wytham Abbey ??? :)

A happy Easter to all !
Charles

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Postby Charles » Wed 21 Apr, 2010 22:40:27

Dear All,

To see Steve's pictures of The Woodhouse, click the following link :

http://www.denniswheatley.info/buildingimages.htm

I can't wait for the next episode !

All best to all ...
Charles


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