Wheatley and Goering

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Nick
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Wheatley and Goering

Post by Nick » Mon 25 Jul, 2005 17:33:42

I have just finished re-reading "They Used Dark Forces" and enjoyed it immensely. As usual I was sorry when the book finished. However I was left wondering (again) where D.W. was coming from with his portrayal of Goering. We are led to believe he was an obese alcoholic drug addict, given to dressing up in strange costumes, however Wheatley has Sabine describe him as "not like the other Nazis" and a WW1 Flying Ace hero. We are also led to believe that he did not sanction the extermination of the Jews, for purely economic reasons, and Wheatley has him refer to them as "Poor Devils"
The famous quote from Goering is his instructions to Heydrich
"I herewith commission you to carry out all preparations with regard to a total solution of the Jewish question in those territories of Europe which are under German influence" This seems at odds with Wheatleys reading of his charactor, to put it mildly.
What provoked Wheatleys' point of view? Or am I taking it all too seriously?

Tobias Cooper
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Wheatley and the Nazis

Post by Tobias Cooper » Tue 9 Aug, 2005 16:07:24

I suspect that the reason behind DWs positive view of Goering relates to his (DW) horror of all things Communist. Goering was part of what could be described as the "Nationalist" wing of the NSDAP and a decorated war hero as such he would have appealed to DWs instincts. The conversation between Gregory Sallust and Goering is full of references taken from the DW book of Geopolitics; the Communists/Russians are far more dangerous than the Nazis, wouldn't it be nice is Britain and Germany could get on and face this more dangerous threat etc etc.

As to the fact that Goering stated his support for the Final Solution and DW ignored this that is probably for the benefit of the story. DW needed a "Good Nazi" and in his eyes only Goering would fit. Remember DW makes Hitler into a raving occultist for the benefit of the story (although to be fair this was in line with some of the more outre views of British Intelligence during the war) when it is clear that he was a materialist.

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Post by Garry Holmes » Sat 24 Sep, 2005 10:21:52

Just thought that I'd stick my oar in here, but has anybody else read those books by Michael Bentine--'Doors of the Mind' & 'The Door Marked Summer'? They concern his experiences of psychic phenomena, and include a fair chunk about his service during WW2. I seem to recall that he claims, on pretty good authority, that a good deal of information about the Nazi's dabbling with the occult was not mentioned during the Nuremburg Trials. This was so that no claims could be made that they were insane and therefore unfit to stand trial. It's a while since I read them, but I think this is the gist of what he says. Anybody else read them?

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Wheatley and Goering

Post by Alan » Mon 26 Sep, 2005 23:47:06

I have read "The Door Marked Summer", but some years ago and don't recall much about the part dealing with the Nazis and occultism - I do recall a fascinating passage about Bentine's medium parents calling up the spirit of a deceased Indian (as in East Indies, not a native American) who graphically acted out his death in the wrestling ring. A passage that was as exciting as any of DW's fiction!

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Post by Garry Holmes » Sat 8 Oct, 2005 12:47:24

I'm going to have to dig those two books out of the black hole which is my library and find out exactly what he did write about Black Magic and Nazis! I'll let you know when (if!!!) I find them.

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Post by Garry Holmes » Sat 29 Apr, 2006 11:42:31

Found that reference at last! 'Doors of the Mind' round about page 90. Bentine was told by no less a person than Airey Neave that there was some evidence that the top Nazis were involved in magical rituals. It was decided not to mention this at the Nuremburg trials in case there was an attempt to plead that they were unfit to stand trial due to insanity!

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Bob Rothwell
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Post by Bob Rothwell » Sat 29 Apr, 2006 18:37:31

Thanks for that Garry. Did you find anything in 'The Door Marked Summer'?

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Post by Lark » Sun 7 May, 2006 22:36:31

If I'm not wrong the ethnic dimension of theosophy, derived largely from the Indo-European element of the Hindu caste system, bares striking similarities to the racist theories of the NSDWP particularly the racial index with Aryans at the top and stuff about arcadia and all that, so there is a possibility that there was some cross over in influences, I wouldnt say sympathies because when Wheatley was at his most anti-communist there are allusions to fascism "Red Eagle" etc.

I think that Wheatley's portrayal of Goering could have had something to do with artistic licence and needing a "good nazi" for the plot but I also think it could have something to do with the near forgotten element in antiquated Great British Conservativism of the social and political importance of aristrocracy, aristrocratic soldiering etc. by comparison any other nazi would have been a dreadful dredge of the proletariat to DW I suspect,

I think it's also got to be considered, which can be difficult, the low opinion of America's role in geopolitics there was in Europe and the UK at the time Wheatley was writing, this is very evident in George Orwell's journalism and letters too, they where pretty much considered a non-entity, therefore its very likely that Wheatley would have thought how will the worlds (european) super powers deal with communism when they are fighting one another

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Post by Charles » Mon 28 Dec, 2009 18:25:46

Dear All,

Iwan mentioned to me a while back that some time ago a Swedish friend of his had written something about DW and Field Marshall Göring.

Iwan's just found it again - it was originally printed in DAST magazine and it's a 20 page script for a TV-play in 5 scenes about DW meeting Göring in Nürnberg in 1945.

Iwan says it's quite an interesting piece of fiction, and that he'd quite happily translate it for us if anyone would be interested.

If it appeals, please let me know and I'll take Iwan up on his typically kind offer.

Best as always - I hope you all had a good Christmas !
Charles

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Post by Steve Whatley » Tue 29 Dec, 2009 20:27:16

Dear Charles,

Iwan mentioned this at the last Convention, and I must say I thought it an intriguing idea - so I'll certainly be very interested to read a translation of the script.

I'm looking forward to it already... [font=Courier New] [/font]

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Post by ken68 » Wed 30 Dec, 2009 22:36:56

hello all. hope everyone is enjoying the festive season.
i just finished "they used dark forces" last night and would be very interested in this.

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Post by Nick » Thu 31 Dec, 2009 01:03:10

According to the documentary on sky called dark brotherhoods (I think) they did indeed use dark forces. I've got it on sky plus so I'll download it and maybe it can play a part in next years convention. Wheatly was ridiculed in fact and in the Fooling Hitler Documentary for suggesting that Black Magic played a part in Hitlers domain. He was correct though (again) and backs up my assertion made many times here and elsewhere that he was years ahead of his time.

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Post by Charles » Thu 31 Dec, 2009 12:59:24

On your theme Nick, I was surprised they didn't pick this up in the TV programme on The Letter To Posterity. If that wasn't far-seeing, I don't know what is.

I've spoken to Iwan, and it will take some time, but he's going to start work on the translation, and I'll make it available as soon as he's finished.

Wishing everyone a very happy New Year ...
Charles

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